I’m trying out Obsidian for taking notes, and this made me laugh.
Funny, but unironically a pretty good idea.
One of my first computer jobs was working in a student computer lab at my undergraduate university. This was back in the mid 90s-ish.
We had three types of computers - windows machines running 3.1 or whatever was current then, Macs who would all do a Wild Eep together when they rebooted en masse, and Sun X Windows dumb terminals that were basically just (obviously) unix machines for all intents and purposes. This was back when there were basically like 5 websites total, and people still hadn’t heard of Mosaic.
So everyone wanted the windows and Mac boxes, and only took the xterms when there was nothing else open. I was the primary support person for them since none of the other people wanted to learn Unix and I was the only CS major.
The X boxes suffered from two main learning hurdles. One was that backspaces were incorrectly mapped into some escape key sequence, and the other is that it would drop you from (I think) pine into emacs as a mail editor as soon as you hit it. 90% of my time was telling people how to exit emacs. It was that, putting more paper into the printers, and teaching myself more programming than I was learning in classes.
My god that brought back memories. The first commands when sitting at a new terminal was always, always:
stty sanestty erase '^H'It was well into the 2000s before Unix had useable defaults.
nano crew where you at
It’s hard to hate
nano, but IMHO there also isn’t anything to like in particular either. It’s basically a TUI notepad. It’s there, it lets people edit files… and that’s pretty much all there is to it.You can use nano without having to read anything about nano. That might be the only thing that is better about it than vim, but it’s a damn important thing.
I have zero patience when trying to make small adjustments to files, which is what my command line text editor should be for. Nano just has everything at the bottom in case you forget (I do, frequently) so the workflow is ridiculously streamlined for me
Absolutely. It also has whole-line cut/uncut which is a godsend when working with config files
Ironically, that’s like the one thing I’ve learned to do in Vim.
That’s it’s job
What else is there for it to do?
Forget KISS, amirite.
Yeah it literally follows the UNIX philosophy
I mean, why compare it with vim at all then. Apples and oranges…
it’s basically a TUI notepad. It’s there, it does one job and that’s all there is to it
That’s what the people who like it like about it.
nano is just… There when you need a text editor for something. Simple and purposeful
I like nano because it has worked any time I needed it. I don’t dislike nano because I’m not good enough at Linux to have ever run into its limitations
I never get the need to use vim and nano exists.
Vim really is an IDE, not a text editor. It’s usable as an editor but overkill.
Nano serves a difference purpose. It’s like telling someone on a bike that a mustang is better.
Vim is absolutely not an IDE. It has no integrations with any language. It’s just a powerful text editor. You can add language plugins and configure it to be an IDE.
That’s what most IDEs are. VS Code doesn’t have any native integrations. Everything is provided by plugins. The default plugins that ship with VS Code can be disabled, and you’ll have just a powerful text editor.
(To do this, go to Extensions tab, click the filter icon, select “Built-in”, and go down the list to disable all of them. Or just build a version with no built-in plugins.)
Sure, and VSCode without any plugins is a text editor, not an IDE.
In that case every IDE is “just a text editor” because basically every IDE is built around modularity in this same way. This is just nitpicking over what is preinstalled.
IDEs are designed to support a software development workload. A text editor is designed to edit text files.
Ah, so Code is the same as Vim if… I go out of my way to either disable things on one or install things on the other.
Or… Or… Code is an IDE (that you can strip down) and Vim is a text editor (that you can strip up).
We don’t stop calling a computer one just because it can still boot without most of its modules. The default presentation matters.
No offense intended here - But why is this being upvoted?
vim absolutely is an IDE if that is how you want to use it. Syntax highlighting, linter, language specific autocomplete, integrated sed/regex. And much, much more.
my car is absolutely a boat if you put a boat motor on the back of it and waterproof it
“You see here my car has positions for all the parts of a boat so it’s easily made into a boat and it’s already waterproof but it’s just a normal car”
I don’t know that’s a fair anology. Vim does what a IDE can do without almost any setup with LazyVim and Lunar Vim and a bunch other prebaked setups. Instead of writing your vscode config in JSON or using a GUI, you can use lua. It’s more like turning car into a track car or something where you’re already a mechanic
Syntax highlighting, linting, and language specific autocomplete are features supported by plugins and scripts. Plain, simple vim is a powerful extensible text editor. The extensibility makes it easy to turn into an IDE.
There’s syntax highlighting by default in vim though.
Yeah, there is a generic syntax highlighting scheme. I had forgotten because it’s not very good for some languages, I’d replaced it with a LSP-based implementation years ago.
The things you’re describing are still just text editor features. An IDE generally has specific functionality for building, testing, packaging, debugging etc. for one or more programming languages/environments.
(Which vim can do if configured, I don’t really have an opinion about that tbh)
It literally has a built in scripting language.
So it’s an IDE for vimscript…? No.
You’re not a normal text editor if you have a built in scripting language.
I’m not a text editor. But anyway, would you call a shell script that invokes
python.exe $1a Python IDE? Why would you? Vim isn’t designed to facilitate the use of vimscript, vimscript is just an extensibility feature of Vim.
Yea, vim really isn’t anything near how useful emacs is.
Emacs really is powerful, all it needs now is a decent text editor.
It has one. It’s called evil-mode.
Not at all what I meant. It’s just, out of the box, a powerful text editor that can be configured and built on if desired. If you want it to be more than a text editor, you can easily make it so.
Like I said, Vim can be made into an IDE by adding and configuring plugins. Basic barebones vim is designed to be a powerful, extensible text editor, not an IDE.
It’s designed to be an extended vi clone above anything else.
In case of a house fire, I’d only escape with two things: my cat and my .vimrc
Nano is for those that occasionally edit text files from a terminal.
Vim is for those who make a living out of it.
So like Word vs Notepad?
Not really, or that doesn’t feel right to my. Word and notepad basically still do the same thing except for that word lets you add style.
Like a manual vs an automatic car, maybe?
Word is a WYSIWYG editor. We don’t talk about it much these days because it’s just how things are done, but it took a long time for the industry to come up with a way to display text on screen with rich formatting and have it come out the same way in print. There was a lot of buzz around it in the late 80s and early 90s.
Word solves a completely different problem than an IDE. Notepad is a raw, minimal tool that could be built on for either WYSIWYG or an IDE.
More like Visual Studio Vs Notepad
If you edit files a lot vim is worth its weight in gold. Nano makes me want to kill myself as everything takes so much longer.
Nano is perfectly sufficient for a very rare edit.
Vim absolutely chews through anything you throw at it. Lots of times we need data formated or lots of SQL queries and I’m the go to guy because I understand vim macros.
Especially if you have any form of RSI.
I wonder if it would be possible to make a user accessable way to expose similar power to the common user.
For the pedants, I hope y’all can at least agree that lunarvim is an IDE:
(Note, a comment saying it’s a “bad IDE” doesn’t make it not an IDE)
It just makes a lot of stuff way easier once you know how to use it. Switching out a word for another: two button-presses, duplicating a line: three presses, deleting 500 consecutive lines: five presses
What if I want to undo my life’s mistakes.
Church of Emacs is always there ;)
But you can do all that with nano and it is straight forward and you don’t need to memorize any key combinations. I mean, I get it and no judgement here. I just use nano because it’s easy and quick.
I think if you just need to edit a config file once in a while, nano is great, but if you’re writing substantial amounts of code, you’ll find vim a lot more capable.
As long as you’re not a filthy emacs user, we can get along
I write my code in an actual IDE. And I use nano for only, like you said, config files and those little things. And I have never used emacs and I don’t even know how it looks like. I’m dead serious, I don’t even know what emacs is or what it does. lmao
I never get the need to use a mechanical pencil and graphite pencils exists
I’ll level with you: I’m kind of a moron.
If my command line text editor has its own bespoke integrated command line, then science has gone too far and we need to stop lmao
😂
I’m struggling to see the connection here. I guess I don’t need to fiddle with the mechanical pencil, it breaks very quickly? I don’t want to go through changing those little sticks? Graphite pencil only needs to be sharpened? So, you’re supporting using Nano? I’m a little confused
Yet many people prefer mechanical pencils. Are you against choice? What is there to get or “need”?
Nah, this is not relative at all. Still, I know my kid hates mechanical pencils. I hate them, too.
nano gang checking in.
However, I’ve been forced over time to remember “:wq” to get unstuck should vim randomly appear.
Alternatively, you can save a key and use
:x(And:q!to quit without saving)Yeah, that’s such a Vim user thing to say :P
I personally like nano but it’s what I used first. So I learned the commands. Vim I still forget Everytime.
Pico gang reporting in.
i’ve only ever used nano in the early stages of a gentoo install, when it’s too early to install vim and import my dot files 😈
% of the time I’m using nano to edit something in the terminal, and it’s usually something really minor. I’m using GUIs for the majority of my computing anyway, so if I need some robust text editing, I’ve got a bunch of easier-to-learn, easier-to-use options available, and that’s totally ignoring things like awk, grep, sed, etc.Here!
I hate terminal-based text editors
Nano seems quite user/idiot friendly
when you click enable vim it should just start nano
I hate when I use visudo and it opens in nano and I try to use vi controls
jjjjjjjjj
just unplug the computer…
And if it’s cloud computer, just unplug the cloud…
What if it’s a laptop?
Disconnect the battery terminals obviously!
Or just wait a while
I miss when this was easy.
Back when you used to be able to buy bigger batteries that gave your laptop a big ol ass
I also miss the days of fat dumper laptops
put it in the microwave
what do you mean? that just recharges the battery
make it real hot
Hold the power button for 10 seconds!
Fireplace
the cloud is just the world you’re living in
Cloud 9 , for sure.
Why would I want to exit vim?
I tmux my vim session so I never have to exit it, I just end the session and NOTHING OF NOTE HAPPENS
Just all those left over swap files I forget about because they are in every one of my dot ignore files.
Aka “vim turds”
yes | rm -r ./.*
killall vim
You monster, I prefer denial
What if SIGTERM not enough? Kill nine times. Like this:
killall -9 vim. Congratulations, comrade, you have passed KGB exam.Hmm never thought of it like that. Unix programs are actually cats, and sometimes you have to kill all nine of their lives to really end them.
I don’t mean to be all “BuT iT’s cLOseD SoURce” but you should give Logseq or Zettlr a try. They’re similar WYSIWYG markdown editors, but also FOSS. Zettlr also has vim keys.
Plus Obsidian is horrible at editing tables.
Also not a fan about the closed source thing, but I like about Obsidian that it’s all just markdown. If I ever need to ditch it, I can keep and use my existing files as they are.
Would this also be possible with Zettlr or Logseq?
Exactly, that and the mobile app. Having simple markdown files and ability to sync them with Syncthing are just too good.
I don’t know about Zettlr, but last I looked at Logseq it worked off markdown files similar to Obsidian.
That said, I felt Logseq wasn’t quite ready for prime time when I was doing my research a year or so ago. So I went with Obsidian and have been very happy with it.
Thanks for the suggestions, I’m actually checking a couple new editors out as i’m looking for an alternative to OneNote. Just started messing with this one, but i’m not sure if i’ll settle for it yet.
I’ve heard good things about anytype.io, but I havent had the chance to use it personally.
I just commented this elsewhere, but I personally feel that their reasons for being closed source are worse than actually just being closed source.
There’s nothing there that really strikes me as disingenuous or bad. If they wanna be closed source, they can be, for whatever reason(s) they want. Does it mean a number of people (me included) are less likely to use it? Yes. But outside of our bubble here, most people don’t care about open vs closed source software.
There’s nothing disingenuous about that? Did we read the same things?
Being closed source doesn’t fix any of the issues they noted.
I’d rather they just say “I’m ashamed of my code”.
I was about to comment that their website also claims “legitimate interest” to create a personalised ad profile on me, before I realised that that is not the official Obsidian website. But yeah, the stated reasons are dumb.
It’s extra work they don’t totally see the value in and they want to be able to sell their product? Those seem like pretty normal reasons not to maintain an open source project.
It is 5 minutes of work to use your source control tool, and have a read only view for other people.
Being open source doesn’t mean you have to accept PRs or pay for audits. It just means your source is… Open…
Logseq has an Android app. Zettlr doesn’t.
Edit: I tested Logseq. It has the basic functionality down, so for many it might be great. For me, though, it doesn’t come close to what is possible with the plugins of Obsidian. So for now I’ll stick with Obsidian.
The Android app is horrible btw. If I had to guess it’s just a desktop web page scaled down and packaged in an app.
Coming here to recommend Joplin, been using it for years and it’s a great note app, markdown + external editing supported, open source, CLI & GUI clients, encrypted… Does everything right!
Firstly Joplin is great note taking app and if that is all you want you really should go for it. I used it for years and was really happy.
But Obsidian is far more than just a note app. It like a Wikipedia page, you can add links within the text of your notes to another note. But they are also bi-directional, meaning you can see the incoming and outgoing links.
Making easy to use the related notes instead of just link to it. Sometimes you did not even think this note could use that note information and it shows you can connect them.
Not only that Dataview lets you live index and query your data. Letting me build a template and query that data dynamics.
I tumbled across Zettlr when I was looking at maybe replacing Zim for my homebrew TTRPG games at the table. I use DokuWiki online. I ran my Star Wars game through it. Pretty impressive.
Would love to but I’m not going to pay a subscription for sync (one time would be ok), or have my data on a random aws instance. And last time I checked there is no plugin for your own self defined sync storage like Nextcloud. Once there is, I’m having a go.
It’s just markdown. You should know how to use git, use it.
You can use FolderSync to sync your .md dir to nextcloud. It suited me well because I use foldersync for other purposes, too
there’s a git plugin which can sync with any git server
There’s a table edit plug in that makes it easy. The gripe I have with it is not being able to right-justify numbers (or maybe I haven’t looked close enough)
Big brain time,
pkill vimVim: Caught deadly signal TERM
Vim: Finished.
TerminatedSo from within vim
:!pkill vim?Or
ctrl-b " pkill vimfor my tmux enjoyers
You need
pkill -9 vimto really make sure it’s dead.
There’s a few different ways to write that command in vim, does it accept all of them?
I’m honestly not super familiar with vim. I tried :q! and it accepted it, what are some other ways?
:q :3
Average furry programmer
Halfway true :3 I’m only a professional programmer which is why I attend in professional work fashion like thigh highs and arm warmers instead of fursuits. I’m more the stereotypical femboy programmer. Pre-edit: am i really just average 3,:
Okay, you are a very cool and sweet femboy programmer :)
Ah, unfortunately it only asks you this question the first time you try it.
!
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
You appear to be in the wrong subreddit (sublemmy?). This is a community based around programmer humor. I recommend you go to the furry sublemmy instead. It is for this reason I have down voted your post today
I don’t get it. I was pretty much replying with a programming related answer, being “:q”. I only added my personal flair to it, being “:3”. And I only expanded after another person assumed me to be a furry as well.
If you want me gone because of that, you got to get your priorities out of the gutter, there ain’t none. And fix your stereotypes too. The other person at least replied humorously. You won’t get a “:3” from me. Good day!
Buddy where do you think furries get the money for fursuits? They are very expensive (or so I’ve heard) and lots of furries pay for their fursuits with high paying jobs like IT jobs
:quit!,:qa!,ZQAh, thanks for
ZQ. I only knewZZ, alternative to:x.
:wq will save and then exit, while :x will save only if the file has been modified and then exit, and then there’s ZZ that does the same as :x, plus there are probably others:-)
The question specifically asked for “the command to quit Vim without saving”
They explicitly ask for the one that quits without saving, so I’d say :q! is the obvious choice
I agree that it’s the most obvious choice, but it also doesn’t work when there are hidden buffers open. :qa! and :cq should always work so they are arguably more correct
Which means none of those are valid? Since this is specifically “quit without saving”
This guy vims
:!killall vim
No, it tried ZQ the other day, does not work
my disappointment is immesurable and my day is ruined.
That is a hilarious, yet useful test.
You guys can exit vim? 😁
A1: Sure, but why would we want to?
A2: Yes, it’s
:q![Enter]emacs[Enter]New problem. I am now stuck in emacs.
Alt-x shell-mode
There you go.
Huh. Which one of them?
I just noticed someone should try xkill if they get the chance. If that doesn’t work they should rephrase the question. That is all. This will be my last grand contribution for today. Have a nice Wednesday everyone :3
This is usually how I end up exiting vim without saving, at least if I’m honest about it.
Maybe one day I’ll get better at it. Nano has been plenty for me.
Oh man, that’s awesome. Aren’t there a couple ways to do that though?
they accept :q! but I haven’t checked anything else yet
According to Stack Overflow, there is also:
- :cq (quit without writing and return non-zero exit code)
- ZQ (quit without writing from normal mode)
I actually knew about ZQ :)
but in what case would you ever need :cq ? I’m curious what’s the idea behind that
Edit: I checked, neither work for obsidian verification, including :cq!
disappointing :c
It’s useful when vim is being run from a different program or script.
For example, if I run
p4 changeto create a new Perforce changelist it will open up my editor (which I have set to vim) so that I can enter the CL description and other fields. If I realize I don’t actually actually want to create the CL yet I can use :cq to quit with an error so thatp4knows to abort.I also have a script I use for diffing a list of file pairs. It runs vim diff on the first pair of files then if I exit with :qa it will move on to the next pair of files. But if I exit with :cq it will just abort and skip all of the remaining file pairs.
You don’t change Vim, Vim changes you. https://youtu.be/9n1dtmzqnCU?si=yLiUc1LHGBgK9trh
I love obsidian, you’ll love it
